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	<title>Comments on: Another painful lesson in ethics.</title>
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	<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/</link>
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		<title>By: Gaige</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaige</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 04:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-50</guid>
		<description>hi i enjoyed the read</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi i enjoyed the read</p>
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		<title>By: m</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-49</guid>
		<description>sigh...

not that i&#039;m justifying photoshopping anything, or manipulating a file in anyway... but the sad thing is... it didn&#039;t make the photo any better.  i don&#039;t understand...

doug&#039;s background in journalism seems extensive, but mostly in writing.  how tough is it to see that digitally enhancing a file and adding something to it is akin to reworking a quote to make it better, or making up description because it makes the story better.

ethics are ethics.  you either have them or you don&#039;t.  and unfortunately, in my eyes, ethics = truth and that&#039;s all we have as journalists.  why destroy it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sigh&#8230;</p>
<p>not that i&#8217;m justifying photoshopping anything, or manipulating a file in anyway&#8230; but the sad thing is&#8230; it didn&#8217;t make the photo any better.  i don&#8217;t understand&#8230;</p>
<p>doug&#8217;s background in journalism seems extensive, but mostly in writing.  how tough is it to see that digitally enhancing a file and adding something to it is akin to reworking a quote to make it better, or making up description because it makes the story better.</p>
<p>ethics are ethics.  you either have them or you don&#8217;t.  and unfortunately, in my eyes, ethics = truth and that&#8217;s all we have as journalists.  why destroy it?</p>
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		<title>By: Waitin&#8217; On a Moment - by Tim Gruber &#187; Ethics continued.</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Waitin&#8217; On a Moment - by Tim Gruber &#187; Ethics continued.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 14:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-48</guid>
		<description>[...] my last post I wrote about an ethical [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my last post I wrote about an ethical [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Thompson</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 01:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Tim, I did not take the post down. I had transferred to a new server over the weekend and we were having trouble with the database and posts were appearing and diesappearing. We did a complete backup and restore this afternoon and it looks like all URLs are working fine. The post is right where it always was. I wish you had checked with me before claiming I had deleted it. I had not.  I did remove the comment thread because it had become a forum for personal invective and insults.

What is different is the final image. Because of the debate, I went back and looked at each of the files and layers that were used during enhancement. I tried backing off three levels of enhancement and the image that now appears on my web site is, I feel, a more accurate portayal of the moon. It is still a photo illustration and is identified as such.

Was this a learning experience? Yes, it was. I Photoshop images on Blue Ridge Muse frequently but try to make sure I give the reader an explanation of what I did when I do so. I teach a class in advanced Photoshop techniques at the local arts center. As I said I also use Photoshop and other image manipulation software to prepare some images for gallery display but those images are always identified as &quot;photo illustrations&quot; or &quot;digitally enhanced images&quot; the same goes for photo illustrations that are sold through stock vendors.

I had not submitted a Photoshopped image for publication in our local weekly before but, in discussions with the editor, told her I had this image I had created to show the moon over the festival on opening night. She asked to see it. I explained what I did and provided an explanation of how I shot and processed it but did not follow up to see how the cutline was handled. The paper is published remotely and an editor 90 miles away handles final layout. I have written a clarification this week that says the photo failed to state that it was an illustration. The editors tell me they are satisfied that I was honest with them but I doubt that I will ever dabble in photo illustration for news use again.

I was wrong and take responsibility for the way it was handled. I have said so on my blog. But I have to ask that why no shooter who has criticized me here or elsewhere took the time to call or email and ask for details? I would have been glad to discuss it with anyone who took the time to do so. I have 40 plus years in this business and hope that I would have given a colleague at least that common courtesy.

--Doug</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I did not take the post down. I had transferred to a new server over the weekend and we were having trouble with the database and posts were appearing and diesappearing. We did a complete backup and restore this afternoon and it looks like all URLs are working fine. The post is right where it always was. I wish you had checked with me before claiming I had deleted it. I had not.  I did remove the comment thread because it had become a forum for personal invective and insults.</p>
<p>What is different is the final image. Because of the debate, I went back and looked at each of the files and layers that were used during enhancement. I tried backing off three levels of enhancement and the image that now appears on my web site is, I feel, a more accurate portayal of the moon. It is still a photo illustration and is identified as such.</p>
<p>Was this a learning experience? Yes, it was. I Photoshop images on Blue Ridge Muse frequently but try to make sure I give the reader an explanation of what I did when I do so. I teach a class in advanced Photoshop techniques at the local arts center. As I said I also use Photoshop and other image manipulation software to prepare some images for gallery display but those images are always identified as &#8220;photo illustrations&#8221; or &#8220;digitally enhanced images&#8221; the same goes for photo illustrations that are sold through stock vendors.</p>
<p>I had not submitted a Photoshopped image for publication in our local weekly before but, in discussions with the editor, told her I had this image I had created to show the moon over the festival on opening night. She asked to see it. I explained what I did and provided an explanation of how I shot and processed it but did not follow up to see how the cutline was handled. The paper is published remotely and an editor 90 miles away handles final layout. I have written a clarification this week that says the photo failed to state that it was an illustration. The editors tell me they are satisfied that I was honest with them but I doubt that I will ever dabble in photo illustration for news use again.</p>
<p>I was wrong and take responsibility for the way it was handled. I have said so on my blog. But I have to ask that why no shooter who has criticized me here or elsewhere took the time to call or email and ask for details? I would have been glad to discuss it with anyone who took the time to do so. I have 40 plus years in this business and hope that I would have given a colleague at least that common courtesy.</p>
<p>&#8211;Doug</p>
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		<title>By: bob sacha</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>bob sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, Mr Thompson makes an interesting point about &quot;fair use,&quot; and while I&#039;m not a lawyer,  I think it means reproducing the photo in its original form with the text, ads, headlines, etc. intact.

This brings up an interesting question: what did the original scene look like to someone who was at this concert? And does that matter?

Given our eyes can capture a greater dynamic range than the digital sensor, and if we enchance pictures to overcome the technical weakness of digital photography and produce an image that&#039;s much closer to what someone experienced at the concert, is that unethical?

I&#039;m not sure that image is closer to what people at the concert saw since I wasn&#039;t there.

Should our ethical decision be driven by trying to capture &quot;reality?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, Mr Thompson makes an interesting point about &#8220;fair use,&#8221; and while I&#8217;m not a lawyer,  I think it means reproducing the photo in its original form with the text, ads, headlines, etc. intact.</p>
<p>This brings up an interesting question: what did the original scene look like to someone who was at this concert? And does that matter?</p>
<p>Given our eyes can capture a greater dynamic range than the digital sensor, and if we enchance pictures to overcome the technical weakness of digital photography and produce an image that&#8217;s much closer to what someone experienced at the concert, is that unethical?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure that image is closer to what people at the concert saw since I wasn&#8217;t there.</p>
<p>Should our ethical decision be driven by trying to capture &#8220;reality?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Gruber</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Gruber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughts Doug.

Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughts Doug.</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Thompson</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 18:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Tim:

You and Eric are welcome to your opinion but you neglect to mention that when I posted the photo on my blog I said up front that it had been modified in Photoshop and that I spent three hours on it.  I also advised my editors of what was done to the photo when it was submitted. Both of this situation when I submitted the photo.

And, while we&#039;re on the subject of &quot;ethics,&quot; do you, as an &quot;ethical&quot; photojournalist, make it a point to reprint someone else&#039;s work on your website without permission? I don&#039;t recall getting a request from you to reprint the photos. Is that ethical? At the very least it is common courtesy.

Please remember that one cannot preach ethics if one does not practice it first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim:</p>
<p>You and Eric are welcome to your opinion but you neglect to mention that when I posted the photo on my blog I said up front that it had been modified in Photoshop and that I spent three hours on it.  I also advised my editors of what was done to the photo when it was submitted. Both of this situation when I submitted the photo.</p>
<p>And, while we&#8217;re on the subject of &#8220;ethics,&#8221; do you, as an &#8220;ethical&#8221; photojournalist, make it a point to reprint someone else&#8217;s work on your website without permission? I don&#8217;t recall getting a request from you to reprint the photos. Is that ethical? At the very least it is common courtesy.</p>
<p>Please remember that one cannot preach ethics if one does not practice it first.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://ackermangruber.com/2007/08/another-painful-lesson-in-ethics/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Aug 2007 13:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timgruber.com/blog/?p=195#comment-43</guid>
		<description>&quot;...images that show a detailed moon in an evening sky without direct sunlight are invariably composites or double exposures. The moon is as bright as daylight, and thus cannot be properly exposured in an image made after sunset that shows detail in the landscape.&quot;
- Galen Rowell, Mountain Light p.217

I dug up Galen&#039;s explanation, now 21 years old, not to weight in on whether the photo is &quot;real&quot; but why, in my opinion, it&#039;s just not very effective. The moon is in full sunlight (think mid-day in Miami), and yet it is rendered with tones very similar to spectators in the foreground, which are definitely not in full sunlight.

I have no idea whether the moon detail was actually in the original capture made by Thomson. I do know that the overall effect, at least to this viewer, is that the relative brightness of the elements in the picture are out of whack.

Kevin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;images that show a detailed moon in an evening sky without direct sunlight are invariably composites or double exposures. The moon is as bright as daylight, and thus cannot be properly exposured in an image made after sunset that shows detail in the landscape.&#8221;<br />
- Galen Rowell, Mountain Light p.217</p>
<p>I dug up Galen&#8217;s explanation, now 21 years old, not to weight in on whether the photo is &#8220;real&#8221; but why, in my opinion, it&#8217;s just not very effective. The moon is in full sunlight (think mid-day in Miami), and yet it is rendered with tones very similar to spectators in the foreground, which are definitely not in full sunlight.</p>
<p>I have no idea whether the moon detail was actually in the original capture made by Thomson. I do know that the overall effect, at least to this viewer, is that the relative brightness of the elements in the picture are out of whack.</p>
<p>Kevin</p>
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